bird, i will just fly a couple lipos or some kind of weight that equals my $500 buck camera, lols. without the clark-y foil, its back to being a experimental model...and since the big eagle, and the enterprise...this will be strike 3 if it don't fly well, lols. randy.

 

Jeff, thanks for the input man....its greatly appreciated. randy.

 

The good news is your doing it to have fun on the cheap. And your workmanship is superb. Much better than I've ever done for R&D. Most if not all of us that have gone through the idea phase have pushed the design extremes on some aspect or another.

I remember showing my designs to my instructor long ago. He'd take a long draw off his smoke and with a chuckle and a course huff that filled the air. 'wanna know what its gonna do' I'd say, 'yes I do', and he'd tell me. But he never told we what to do to fix it. His way of getting a good show and making the lesson stick I figured. I always went forward with the projects anyways, and he was usually spot on. But he sure could of saved me a lot of balsa and monokote till I learned what I was doing.

I find myself doing the same with my students these days, and it's so much cheaper on them. Sometimes I get a surprise out of it. This one guy got so tired of gluing layers of foam to the nose of his poor beat to heck trainer to keep it straight, then having to build a whole new fuse just to do the same the next weekend, he had the idea for a removable front half. (LE forward) He asked we what I thought and instead of saying 'just learn to fly better' I said 'go for it' Gosh darn if the next week he had four nose sections ready to go. Just pull the velcro motor mount then the wing and gear dowels, and install a new nose. Two minute job max and no major re-trim needed.

 

jeff, bird...i really should not mess with a proven design....but the downside is a piece of junk model, or the upside is it will fly so lightly carring a camera that flies wonderfully...i suppose its worth the coin flip. i will know shortly...all i gotta do is install a couple servos...btw the fuse is at 10.1oz. wile the 62in span wing is at 7.7oz. i still have to add, lipo, 2 servos, radio, and landing gear. randy.

 

got the wing fitted to fuse...going to do the gear next..weight is at almost 18oz. as far.

 

man being the ghetto monkey, i have to use the stuff i got laying around....its a bad deal in a way, because i know i can build lighter...like i got a 45amp controller for a 20amp motor. a full range radio were i can use the lighter one...and so on... i just do the best i can, without spendin more money....i installed the servos today, and the fuse, with servos, radio, and a big honkin speedy weighs in at 11.9oz. as of now....with the 7.7oz. wing and the fuse, the weight of now is 19.6 without the lipo and the gear and camera...oh yea...i got a neat little mod i came up with...buy a r/c car antenna for your push rod guides, it works great..and ther cheap..randy.

 

All looks really nice RJ!

 

thanks al...hopefully i can maiden very soon...

 

got the gear installed today...it added lots of weight to the model...as it sits without the lipo, or the camera, its 25oz. buy the time i slap in a 2250 3-cell, the weight will be 31.1oz. without camera...man i hope this 62in. span high-lift wing can cut the mustard....

 

fellas, Trish, the high-lift cargo plane is ready for its maiden....the ready to fly weight is 30.5oz. with a 1300mah pack....and 33.3oz. with the 2250mah pack. this is the auw WITHOUT payload. the camera i have now is 12.8oz. i may have to save some funds for a new one....but i will maiden to get the cg, then i will fly a big lipo i have...its 14.1oz. it the model can haul that up, it will do my camera set-up fine. if not, i will have to get a smaller camera....maiden will probably take place next week, if the weather will permit. if the model flies like it looks, it will be fantastic. peace, randy.

 

KX-5, thanks...the model i copied from a great planes tudor...the motor is a old hi-max 200watt i had laying around...the wheels are 2.500 dia.. i am very anxious to fly. randy.

 

wow, lucky...thats cool, i will look into one...randy.

 

got a chance to get out this morning and get the hi-lift wing its first flight....the model was very pitchy...trimmed for level flight at half speed, its fine. give some throttle and the thing would loop, lols. cut the power, and it would dive down on a 45 deg angle...i made two flights, with a cg change, and although the model flies great at any certain speed, and it lands at a walking speed...the pitch problem....well lets just say I'm not going to deal with that carrying a camera. i made the decision to go back to the Clark-y, as its proven on the smaller model...i programmed the wing the same with the 2 deg, tip washout. I'm not sure why, but the fellas on the e-zone told me it would fly very pitch sensitive...they were right. that's the beauty of the cnc machines...pull up the file, and wham ya got a new wing fast. i just cut out the Clark-y airfoil on the phlatty and used as a layout template for the fuse saddle...easy fix...so any how, i will re maiden in a few days, after i glue up the new wing....randy.

 

I'm sure that hi-lift foil was a handful, and I'm also sure the general auw of the plane was the saving grace in just getting back on the ground in one piece Flying anything in an extremely dirty (big camber/flaps and full span to boot) configuration is very unstable in pitch. A flapped Telemaster is a good trainer for full flap practice and a must do before any attempt at a scale low wing war bird. (just future reference if you ever move into that neighborhood).

You will have success with the Clark Y. If that's a little slow in getting from A to B the Eppler 205 is also a lifting workhorse with plenty of structure. Feel free to fatten it up a tad, say maybe to 11-12% (max). Of course then it wouldn't be a 205 but it's the lower entry and high point that makes that foil

Keep the stuff coming, its good to see.

 

yea, i hear ya bird...with the high-lift foil, you would ether do a throttle mix that gave full down with more throttle, or get like a 45 deg down thrust angle....man i never seen anything like it, lols...well i will have the new wing remade by tomorrow, so its no biggie...all i have to do is glue on the spar strap. also i took out that noob flier polyhedral out...don't know why i even made with it to start with, lols. also the new wing i made a even 60in. span. my original magpie had a 54in....i just gave 3in more a side...it will be ready to re maiden when the weather is rite....should be in a few days, at most. here is a photo of the new wing differences. randy.

 

Randy what do you think is causing all the pitching?
I really like the way you added the back wheel to this trainer, it looks sharp!
Mark

 

mark, i have no clue man.....the thing flew dorkey, that's all i know, lols...lucky to get it down twice in one piece, lols. randy.

 

The pitching was caused by the large amount of lift(or angular deflection-which ever camp your in) created behind the CG with foils of this type. It increases as speed increases in this case and it tends to move reward. Hence the comment about an inverted foil on the tail earlier in the thread to help offset the downward pitching (I think it was this thread). The high aspect ratio was no help either. A foil like that with a moderate loading would do well with a 4:1 a/r, provided it was articulated. That my quick building friend would of been an interesting fly with an amazing speed range.

Please don't consider polyhedral a noob configuration. Those turned up tips really help in giving crisp initial banking as the turn is entered along with providing a more stable center of low pressure while in a bank at low speed. (final approach) For a slow stable payload carrier with hands off stability it is unbeatable. The benefits of a dihedral setup would be hard to notice for something doing what your asking, yet requiring more input and attention from the pilot and more input to start a turn. (for a given di/poly config that is)

edit for spelling

 

t-bird, please excuse me from using the term "noob"....i didn't intend to use with any kind of disrespect...also if i had money for aileron servos, i would just install them insteat of messing with big angle dihedral, polyhedral..i started to do the spar, and instead of using fiber, i stopped at the home depot center, "yes mike i heard your latest pod-cast" and i agree with you. but they gave me FREE strapping ribbon for my spar...the fella told me they just throw away..the green color dont matter to me...i started to go at it with my new favorite glue..figures the old monkey likes the gorilla glue, lols. i glue wing up in four steps, and here is the first spar glue. randy.