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Anyone have info on digital printing/painting foam?

Discussion in 'General Talk Forum' started by dugd1013, Dec 8, 2010.

  1. dugd1013

    dugd1013 Member

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    I'm looking for ideas on out sourcing or acquiring digital printing/painting on our foamie plane designs. I haven't found or seen companies that provide that service or if it would even be feasible to consider purchasing the necessary equipment to launch a full scale business venture. If any of you guys have some ideas or information along those lines I would appreciate the assistance.

    Doug
     
  2. Crash

    Crash Moderator Staff Member

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    I am almost certain that all of the foam planes you see with graphics already on them have been screen printed. There is tons of info on the net regarding this kind of stuff, but I don't know how feasible it will be for planes.

    Most of us here are airbrushing our designs. You can even use the PhlatPrinter to make templates for airbrushing. The equipment investment is small, too - you can get a complete airbrush package (dual action brush, hose, and compressor) all for about $90 at Harbor Freight. That's the stuff I use for my foamies.
     
  3. dugd1013

    dugd1013 Member

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    I currently airbrush all of my planes as well. I have been doing mostly custom and one off paint schemes for friends and a few paying customers. Trouble is the amount of time it takes to layout, change colors and allow for paint drying. I'm thinking of taking my production level up a few notches and doing this as a part/full time business venture in lieu of merely a hobby. I am pretty much maxed out on time when doing all phases by hand. The purchase of the Phlatprinter is a move in the direction of larger production. Thinking along those lines, I'm looking at the options to automate the printing/painting in order to mass produce a design with commercial quality finishes.

    I appreciate any and all input/assistance from the forum, Thanks!

    Doug
     
  4. Jnida63

    Jnida63 Member

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    I tried the screenprinting route but it was too costly for me to consider starting up,
    Multi color stations run in the thousands and the space I needed was too great for me as I live in a very small 3 bedroom house with no garage or basement. (2 rooms are for R/C stuff).
     
  5. dugd1013

    dugd1013 Member

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    I'm not entirely familiar with all the screen printing options but, the one system I saw in action was basically a manual template & roll operation. I'm really looking for a system that is capable of loading a sheet of foam into and the design is sprayed onto it much in the same way an inkjet printer operates.

    I have a friend in the commercial printing field who is sending out a few feelers, maybe I'll run into a option down that road. Surely there must be a reasonable option out there just waiting to be utilized in the foamie plane world!

    Doug
     
  6. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Doug what would be cool is to attach an ink jet print head to the Phlatprinter !
    Save a lot of money and learn/share a cool adventure as you go.
    If money is no option you could go with this http://www.wide-format-printers.org/pri ... erials.htm
    The downside is that you have to coat the material you are going to print first so that the ink is absorbed into the coat you lay on first and not interfere with the oils found in most products.
    Hope this helps
    Mark and Trish
     
  7. Chuck

    Chuck New Member

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    Silkscreen seems the best option. Downside...it is messy. I can't do it here because it is winter and I usually use a hose outside to clean or flush the ink off the screen. Too cold now to mess in that stuff. Multiple colors are easy with silkscreens if you mask off unwanted areas and use some good registration marks. You would need to build a large screen I think considering the size of a lot of the plane parts. I am getting ready to work mine over and get it set up because I make a huge mess if I try airbrush or other spray paints. If you guys find the magic method, please share...

    While I am at it, here's a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone in Phlatland!

    Chuck
    ...somewhere in Indiana...
     
  8. dugd1013

    dugd1013 Member

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    The main goal is to eliminate as much manual labor as possible. I would like to run 100-200 units in a production run. Manual masking and multiple screen changes seems a bit unlikely to accomplish this goal without a major production facility in place. I'm guessing the production cost per unit in that type of operation would be higher that the market price of the product would support.

    I left a message with Paul at RCFOAM regarding locating a digital graphics printing source. Hopefully there are options down that road. If not I may have to assemble the local Nerd Herd and build a suitable attachment for the Phlatprinter. Product development isn't really my strong suit but, I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express on several occassions! :cool:

    Doug
     
  9. TigerPilot

    TigerPilot Well-Known Member

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    Jeff, you are my hero!!! :D :D :D
     
  10. jovian

    jovian Member

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    I am thinking an attachment to the MKIII would be the best bet as well. Maybe some hacking with the HF airbrushes.
     
  11. dugd1013

    dugd1013 Member

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    I've been putting some thought into building a Phlatprinter mod. I'm having a little trouble (in therory) solving the issue of pressure rollers moving over the freshly laid graphics. I have every bit of my 24 x 36 inch sheet used up with layout. EPP foam sheet is only available in 24 x 36 sheets as far as I am aware of. Since both sides of the material will have graphics printed on it, the process would need some sort of carrier sheet that the Phlatprinter can process without skewing on the x/y axis. Using adhesive on a carrier sheet will kill one side of the graphics for sure. Perhaps a pocketed carrier sheet, one inch or so, that I could pin graphics sheet into?

    As I was envisioning the work flow, I was thinking it would be really ideal to print the graphics on one side, print the reverse side, and then run the cut layout. I suppose it could be done with the cut run first as long as the material lost during cutting doesn't give rise to issues with a carrier sheet option. I don't know which work flow method would be more difficult to find a repeatable (home) start point on the matierial so as not to throw off the following process.

    Doug
     
  12. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    You could do what we do with the pen attachment and add o'rings to the outside edges of the pressure rollers to hold them up from the board while still applying pressure. There's no need for the bar to lay across the entire piece as there is no spindle trying to move the media. Just the pen or ink jet spraying the ink :)
    Mark and Trish
     
  13. dugd1013

    dugd1013 Member

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    OK, I see the methodology behind that thought. I still have the material width issue to deal with. I don't really want to break the parts nesting onto two sheets due to noticable variations in sheet thickness. One unit per sheet yields the best parts match. The pocketed carrier still seems to be the best option to address that issue.

    Now for the spray head, need to find something that will do laytex ink. At least that's the first thought!

    Doug
     
  14. rcav8r

    rcav8r Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd opt for something other than a HF airbrush if your going to go to the trouble of making an attachment. I picked up a single action set from HF a while back for quick jobs as I hate to tear apart my double action one for cleaning after a quick job. Well when I went to use the HF airbrush for the 2nd time ever, I had it all set with paint in the jar and all. As soon as I turned on the air, it started spraying paint all over the place. It appears that the spring in the trigger broke, or something as it is stuck on. As it's a once piece unit, I can't take it apart to see how/where it failed. Well at least I now have 5 paint jars that fit my double action brush.
     
  15. jovian

    jovian Member

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    I was thi.king of the double action hf ones but point taken.
     
  16. rcav8r

    rcav8r Moderator Staff Member

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    I got my dual action from here : http://www.bearair.com/ I got it a while ago, and it was their house brand, and relatively cheap. I am no expert by any means, but it has severed me well for years.
     
  17. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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  18. jovian

    jovian Member

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    sweet now only if they said how it was done
     
  19. TigerPilot

    TigerPilot Well-Known Member

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    Doug, since the PhlatPrinter will take 27" of material, take a piece of foam 27" wide and longer than the foam you use. Make a 'frame' out of foam,thicker than the one you want to print on, and glue it to the base material, which will become your carrier. All you have to do is lay the foam to be printed in the 'frame'.

    Over at CNCzone there is this thread http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_e ... _pcbs.html. While it is not quite what you want it might give you some ideas.
     
  20. dugd1013

    dugd1013 Member

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    That's the ticket. I need to consult with a couple of my friends here in Wichita to get the commitment from them for the hands on developement as this project is going to take a few craniums worth of computing power! However, I do think we are on to something very possible with the ideas and information presented so far.

    Doug
     
  21. dugd1013

    dugd1013 Member

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    I had a chance to speak with a few folks this past weekend at a local indoor fly. I took a look at one of the latest EPP foamie planes to hit the market that has digital graphics printed on most every section of the plane. It looked very nice, so nice that I actually bought one to add to my squadron.

    The printing is done with an injet system using UV ink. Details are a lttle sketchy from that point on due to some proprietary issues but, I still think there is a real possibility of working up an attachment for the Phlatprinter 3. I started the wheels turning with one of my friends who is quite capable on the computer side of things. Hopefully he can work up a suitable hack for the ink jet delivery system.

    Once my Phlatprinter 3 is up and running I'll be concentrating on working out an attachment layout for what ever hack he comes up with.

    Another route which may be somewhat easier but, less valuable to the Phlatprinter 3 community may be to just modify an existing inkjet printer chasis to accept foam products. At any rate, several inkjet printers may need to be sacrificed in order to accomplish this goal.
     
  22. indoorheli

    indoorheli New Member

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    I am able to print on any foam or any surface up to 12"hx8'Lx4'w
    It is done with UV inks on a flatbed printer that prints 300DPI. On depron it is photo realistic and on epp it is very good just not as clear due to the course nature.
    It isnt cheap though as I have to have the 8x4 bed full for reasonable rates.
     
  23. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Go for it dugd1013! Its this kind of ingenuity that will take this project to new levels!
    When you guys start I am sure that many Phlatboyz here will jump right in to help. :)

    indoorheli, Good to know that there is a resource for this here. Do you have web page with pricing available?
    Thanks
    Mark and Trish
     
  24. indoorheli

    indoorheli New Member

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    There is no webpage as the machine is used commercially for a totally different application. I have been talking with the owner for sometime now about applying it to custom foam printing. I have access to it and do small projects on it every now and again. (I last used it for a 3x4 canvas print of my kids for my wife, amazing quality and very high contrast) I am still working out details for things like duplex printing and as i said it isnt cheap for small stuff. The higher price for small stuff is due to the labor involved since it is a vacuum table and is a PITA if you dont use the whole table. So the best way would be someone that wants to do multiple projects at once that can total the 8x4' surface area. . I will find out the 8x4 price next week when i get back to work.

    Ivan
     
  25. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Sounds good Ivan, thank you
    Mark and Trish
     

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