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Printer Toner.

Discussion in 'General Talk Forum' started by Tweakie, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. Tweakie

    Tweakie Member

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    Keeping a close eye on what others are doing in the laser world I noticed some excellent work using low powered (1 Watt) lasers to fuse printer toner onto wood thereby creating images.

    I had to give this a try using my slightly higher powered laser – first on wood then on copper clad PCB material – then tried a simple PCB layout which was subsequently etched.

    The only difficult part appears to be creating a thin and relatively even coating of toner on the work - after that, the rest is easy.

    Just thought this may be of interest.

    Tweakie. Attached files [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. rcav8r

    rcav8r Moderator Staff Member

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    That is REALLY cool. From what I hear though toner can be some pretty nasty stuff as it is so fine. Our copier/printer repair guy wears a mask with a special filter when working on a machine that is particularly dirty. Do you take any precautions for the dust?
     
  3. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Interesting stuff Tweakie. I had not thought of fusing toner before. I always thought the laser in the printers was to charge the drum in the areas where the toner should stick. Then the binding was done though hot rollers? Very cool, thank you for the information and post.
    Mark and Trish
     
  4. Tweakie

    Tweakie Member

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    Yes indeed sir - there are dangers when working with fine powders particularly in confined spaces so, like anything concerning machines, lasers etc. the necessary safety precautions must always be observed.

    Tweakie.
     
  5. TigerPilot

    TigerPilot Well-Known Member

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    The toner is powder? I thought it was a liquid with the consistency of molasses.

    Could you make really fine lines on the PCB board with this method? Do you print it fast or slow? Does doing it slow gives a better results? I tried the toner transfer before but was not happy with the outcome. It looks from your picture above that burning the toner gives clean lines. I had leakage under the toner with the toner transfer which caused the thinner lines to be cut, and I'm not talking about hair thin lines.
     
  6. rcav8r

    rcav8r Moderator Staff Member

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    Having never operated a laser, so take that into account, but I imagine that the width of the thinnest line it can create would be how wide the beam is. And being that the kerf of the laser cut kits I have had is really fine, I would imagine the line of toner would be too. Laser printers can print awfully fine lines and it is relying on a charge on a drum to keep that fine line intact.
    Just my :02cents:
     
  7. Tweakie

    Tweakie Member

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    Hi Guys,

    The above pictures relate to my initial tests and I think the process has possibilities as the results can be superior to the ‘iron-on’ toner process for producing PCB’s.

    Without getting too technical the toner goes through 3 distinct stages – heating, melting and flowing. Newton had a description for the time lag between an ‘action’ and it’s associated ‘reaction’ but I think of it as latency. Toner has latency and it is necessary to apply the laser beam to the molecules for a long enough time period to enable the flow stage to be reached – otherwise it does not adhere properly to the copper surface. This time period could be reduced by increasing the laser power level to just below the point at which the toner is vaporised so there is bit of a balancing act here between laser power and feed-rate in order to achieve the optimum performance.

    It is still early days yet and my initial tests have been made by raster scanning at a constant feed-rate of 500mm/min and keeping the laser power to an absolute minimum. (This is mainly because I want to see if acceptable results can be obtained which can be replicated using a 1 Watt diode laser).

    The image for the PCB in the above picture was created for an isolation routing tool-path so the cutter itself would produce the necessary clearance between the pads. For the laser / toner process to be successful (allowing for flow) the initial layout should have a greater clearance between the pads (smaller diameter pads and thinner tracks perhaps). So there is still much for me to learn and I will let you know how I get on.

    Tweakie.
     
  8. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    That would be cool! Do you think something like this would do the trick if we were to use raster scanning?
    http://www.o-like.com/index.php?main_pa ... ucts_id=97
    A buck 50 for a 1W laser seems like a nice start?
    Thanks for the update Tweakie
    Mark and Trish
     
  9. Tweakie

    Tweakie Member

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    Unfortunately I have no experience of that particular device so could not say one way or another. It looks promising though.

    Perhaps not useful, unless using Google Translate, but the Guys here are doing a lot of work with 1 Watt diode lasers and learning as they go. http://hobbycncart.com/forum/17-204-1

    The English section of the forum has more works with 1 Watt diode lasers using their (John's) software to create the GCode and their results are, I think, quite outstanding - it's just a shame that I cannot quite match their performance when using my CO2 laser :( http://hobbycncart.com/forum/63-151-13

    Tweakie.
     
  10. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Wow great stuff Tweakie
    This one is amazing! I never thought a laser could engrave this deep
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Tweakie

    Tweakie Member

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    :D That one is a composite - we were discussing the possibilities of lasering the grey-scale shades on top of a rotary engraved relief (It would take at least 10Watts to cut into the surface like that).

    Tweakie.
     
  12. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Ahh! makes sense now :oops:
    Very cool idea to combine to two processes
    Thanks Tweakie
    Mark and Trish
     

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