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CarBEN EV open source electric car design

Discussion in 'Sketchup Gallery' started by NeilBlanchard, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Member

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    Hi folks,

    Mark, I could put some solar panels on CarBEN EV eventually, but initially I will be concentrating on the aerodynamics and the myriad of construction details. You need at least 4-5X more surface area than CarBEN has and the angle to the sun is an serious issue as well. I think it would be best to put the solar panels on my house, and charge it while it sits in the driveway.

    dugd1013, the foam sections I will be cutting *will be* the chassis core, with fiberglass skins on the inside and the outside. There will probably be a front steel subframe, but the fiberglass/foam composite sandwich will be the main chassis.

    The battery pack is in the floor, and it is about 56kWh; using 768 EiG lithium cells. Each cell is 3/8" thick x 5 1/2" x 10 1/2", and it should weigh about 900 pounds. There will be twin direct drive motors, each driving one front wheel through a driveshaft. It will have 5 seats, in an unconventional arrangement (driver in the center and the passenger seats staggered behind -- see the drawing on my blog.
     
  2. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Member

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    I have questions about using the PhlatPrinter III:

    How do I speed up the jogging speed?

    To cut a nominal 2" x 2' x 8' sheet of foam, do I set the limits to that dimension precisely, of do I set it to about the 1 1/2" shy of each of the ends and about 1/4" shy of either side (due to the tongue and groove there)? Or do I just set up the cut pieces to be inside these margins?

    With the stock bit having cutting teeth on only part of the shank, how do I set the cuts to go in 2 depth passes?

    Do I have to "tell" it to always raise the Z-height to clear the foam between cuts, or will it do this automatically? Where is this set?

    I need to get some rollers to support the foam when it is sticking out 4-8' -- any ideas on where to buy these?
     
  3. TigerPilot

    TigerPilot Well-Known Member

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    Neil, I never cut 2" but I think that you can't do it with the stock bit. Once the part without the cutting edge is in the foam it most likely will heat and melt the foam. I'm not sure that it will do it but that what happens with the smaller bits. Try it out and you'll see. If it will melt the foam you'll have two options. 1) Buy a new router and mount it instead of the flex shaft. A router can take a 1/4" bit and they come in 2" length if you look for it. 2) Look for a bit with a 1/8" shank but a bigger cutting edge. You'll be cutting with the multipass and it will work out fine.

    As I've said before, you can't go, on the x axis, all the way to the front or back. I said that you'll have to leave about 1.25" more or less and this still stands. Measure it and you'll know how much it is exactly. Once you have that measurement you'll subtract it from your total foam length and the result you will put in the parameter box in the SketchUCam in SU, if that is what you use, if you use another program to generate your g-code you'll have to follow the instruction in that program.

    On the y axis you can go as close to the edge as you want. I have barely an 1/8" of material left when I cut. That's how close I go to the edge.

    If you use SketchUCam you don't have to worry about the z height, it does it automatically and I'm sure that other programs do it too. Generate the g-code and look at it in a backplot program. You'll see there if it goes up for the travel or not.

    Can you use these for rollers? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DT ... CKZMZ9XTDJ
     
  4. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Member

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    Thanks -- I've confirmed the 1 1/4" minimum at the ends -- I'll use 1 1/2" on the layout to give a little wiggle room.

    I'm hoping to be able to figure out how to cut the depth in 2 passes -- one at 1" deep and the second at another 3/4" deep -- about the maximum length of the stock bit.

    Here's a real pretty sight:

    [​IMG]

    :D

    I used this excellent cleanup plugin in SketchUp:

    http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=22920

    You have to register and sign in to see it, and you'll need to download and install the TT_Lib2 files, but it seems to be helpful. Though I still need to draw at least one line in SU to get a face, and on a few, there are some small gaps. I thought that you needed to have inside cuts open, but not so.

    What does the Plunge Tool do?

    I don't think I need tabs as the last 1/8"-3/16" at the bottom surface will not be cut.

    I may be all set to generate the g-code! I wish we could figure out the 2-depth passes...

    Edit: I almost missed the rollers you linked to! Those are precisely what I need -- I've ordered four! :)

    What is SketchUcam?
     
  5. TigerPilot

    TigerPilot Well-Known Member

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    Neil, let me make sure, you are using SU, right? If yes, than the plunge tool is for drilling holes. As for the two passes, check the 'generate multipass' option in the parameter box and set the depth of the cut you want in the box bellow it. And if you'll use the 4mm bit I've mentioned a few post back you'll be able to make a full 2" cut.
     
  6. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Member

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    Yes, I am using SketchUp both the model the car, and then later to generate the g-code. I am using SU in tandem with DataCAD, which can XRef and export SU files. And I'm using the CNC USB program that ships with the PhlatPrinter III.

    Which program has the 'generate multipass' option?

    If I find a longer bit, how do I then adjust the outside / inside cut tools for the larger diameter?

    What is SketchUcam?

    Thanks again Yoram, for your help.
     
  7. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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  8. TigerPilot

    TigerPilot Well-Known Member

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    Don't mention, I just want a ride in that thing! :dance3:
     
  9. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Member

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    I have now laid out 4 sheets of foam with (almost) 7 sections:
    [​IMG]

    7 sections finished and laid out on 4 (2'x8') sheets of foam; and the 8th section is started! Only 77.5 sections to go... :)

    Section F0 is on the right end, and it is at the highest point of the roof. F1 through F7 are each ~2" forward of the previous. You can see the "ball and socket" joints, and the 1/2" diameter alignment holes. The support rollers come on Thursday so I will probably make the first foam cuts next weekend!

    The bottom piece of F7 is going onto the next sheet of foam, so these four sheets will build just less than 14" of the length of the CarBEN EV. They cost about $36... Of course the fiberglass will be more.

    My brother Nathan, who works for UPS suggested these omnidirectional rollers:

    [​IMG]

    ...and I was going to try and use them, but the rollers I am getting are ready to go:

    [​IMG]
    (click on image for link)

    I've ordered four of them, which should do the trick.

    I will be making an alignment jig, once I figure out how to set up the USB CNC program. I am leaving 1.5" at each short edge and .375" on each long edge -- the friction rollers need 1.25" minimum to keep a "grip" on the sheet and there is a .25" tongue/groove on the long edges.

    Jigsaw puzzle joint makes sense to me. The slowest part of this process is that I have to "sum" the two adjacent sections -- they are cut starting at the high point of the roof, and the ones I am working on are cut "looking" forward of this. I then cut the next section, and layout the inside profile -- and then I copy the entire second section over the first one. I then erase all the lines on the inside; keeping the outer-most lines only. This makes the stepped form will always be larger than the finished shape, and I will only have to *remove* the steps to get the actual form of the car.

    This was the major lesson of making the quarter scale model -- I had lots of voids wherever the shape "grew" from the previous section. And on the full size one I am now doing, it is the *inside* surfaces that need to be taken into account!
     
  10. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Neil this is going be a great project to see come together.
    Keep up the good work, its getting exciting in here! :dance3:
    Mark and Trish
     
  11. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Member

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    Is it possible to set the cutting depth to ~1% so I can cut the part number on to each piece?

    Also, do I set the 2 stage cuts of the main cuts to 50% in SketchUp with one of the plugins, or is this done in the CNC USB program?

    Is the Safe Area tool (in SU) preset size only, or can it be customized? When I load the DOW foam Material file in CNC USB and change the X size to 96.00, nothing seems to change in the display. Will the cutting be limited to this area?
     
  12. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Member

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    I generated the g-code in SU, and when I try to import it into CNC USB program, I get an error code:

    [​IMG]

    How do I debug this?

    Edit: is the flattened arc on the left the issue?
    [​IMG]

    The other side (and all the others) are all arcs, but this one is a chord...
     
  13. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Member

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    I will try this process again -- I did use the Clean Up plugin *after* doing the Phlat Tools but before making the g-code. Hopefully it goes through okay, or I am up a creek...

    Or, maybe I have to do the Phlat Tools in the Windows version of SketchUp? I am running Fusion and WinXP on the iMac, so if this is what is needed to get it to work, I'm fine with that.
     
  14. TigerPilot

    TigerPilot Well-Known Member

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    Neil, to write a number on the foam write it on it SU where you it and then use the center line tool to mark it. Before you mark it enter the depth of the cut. In your case just enter the digit 1 (one) end press enter. You'll see it in the right bottom corner coming up like this ' 1% '.
     
  15. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Member

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    Okay, I tried again to export th g-code in SketchUp 8 for Mac, and it gives me another error hen I try to import the g-code into CNC USB... :cry:

    I am trying to run v7 in WinXP but the PhlatscripT tools do not show up there -- how do I get out of this conundrum? How can I get my g-code to work?

    Help, please!
     
  16. Evil-Tunes

    Evil-Tunes Moderator Staff Member

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    I would post the CNC code you are having problems with to see what the problem is. Maybe some one can dcode it for you.

    Cheers
    E-T
     
  17. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Member

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    Okay, here's the contents of one of the CNC files:

    %
    (Generated by PhlatscripT {0.924})
    (File: Sheet F1 take umpteen.skp)
    (Bit diameter: 0.1250")
    (Feed rate: 100.0000")
    (Material Thickness: 0.2500")
    (Material length: 22.0000" X width: 42.0000")
    (Overhead Gantry: false)
    (www.PhlatBoyz.com)
    G90 G20 G49
    M3 S15000
    G0 Z0.1250
    X7.3077 Y10.9701 Z0.1250
    G1 Z-0.3500 F100
    G17 G3 X7.3528 Y10.9514 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
    X7.4012 Y10.9450 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
    X7.4496 Y10.9514 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
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    X7.5334 Y10.9998 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
    X7.5631 Y11.0385 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
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    X7.4947 Y11.2939 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
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    X7.4012 Y11.3190 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
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    X7.2690 Y10.9998 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
    X7.3077 Y10.9701 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
    G0 Z0.1250
    X7.8434 Y10.5008 Z0.1250
    G1 Z-0.3500 F100
    G17 G3 X7.8635 Y10.3173 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X7.9062 Y10.1397 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X7.9710 Y9.9690 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
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    X9.0973 Y9.1381 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X9.3420 Y9.1226 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    G1 Y8.1264 Z-0.3500
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    Y3.4586 Z-0.3500
    G17 G3 X10.7988 Y3.2689 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
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    X11.0835 Y2.5815 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
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    X11.5051 Y2.2117 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X11.6738 Y2.1286 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X11.8518 Y2.0681 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X12.0362 Y2.0315 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X12.2259 Y2.0190 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    G1 X21.1593 Y2.0190 Z-0.3500
    G17 G3 X21.2184 Y2.0229 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X21.2745 Y2.0341 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X21.3287 Y2.0525 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X21.3800 Y2.0778 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X21.4276 Y2.1095 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X21.4706 Y2.1473 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X21.5083 Y2.1903 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
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    X21.5654 Y2.2892 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X21.5838 Y2.3433 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X21.5949 Y2.3994 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X21.5988 Y2.4586 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    G1 Y8.1264 Z-0.3500
    X22.2860 Y8.1264 Z-0.3500
    Y2.4296 Z-0.3500
    G17 G3 X22.2899 Y2.3705 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X22.3010 Y2.3144 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X22.3194 Y2.2602 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X22.3447 Y2.2089 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X22.3765 Y2.1613 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X22.4142 Y2.1183 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X22.4573 Y2.0806 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X22.5048 Y2.0488 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X22.5561 Y2.0235 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X22.6103 Y2.0051 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X22.6664 Y1.9939 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X22.7256 Y1.9901 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    G1 X32.6590 Y1.9901 Z-0.3500
    G17 G3 X32.7181 Y1.9939 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X32.7742 Y2.0051 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X32.8284 Y2.0235 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X32.8797 Y2.0488 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X32.9273 Y2.0806 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X32.9703 Y2.1183 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X33.0080 Y2.1613 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
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    X33.0651 Y2.2602 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X33.0835 Y2.3144 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X33.0946 Y2.3705 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X33.0985 Y2.4296 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    G1 Y8.1264 Z-0.3500
    X34.2746 Y8.1264 Z-0.3500
    Y2.4296 Z-0.3500
    G17 G3 X34.2784 Y2.3705 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X34.2896 Y2.3144 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X34.3080 Y2.2602 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X34.3333 Y2.2089 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X34.3651 Y2.1613 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X34.4028 Y2.1183 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X34.4458 Y2.0806 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X34.4934 Y2.0488 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X34.5447 Y2.0235 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X34.5989 Y2.0051 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X34.6550 Y1.9939 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X34.7141 Y1.9901 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    (move x= 44.647520 GT max of 42.0)
    G1 X42.0000 Y1.9901 Z-0.3500
    G17 G3 X44.7067 Y1.9939 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X44.7628 Y2.0051 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X44.8169 Y2.0235 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X44.8682 Y2.0488 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X44.9158 Y2.0806 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X44.9588 Y2.1183 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X44.9966 Y2.1613 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X45.0283 Y2.2089 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X45.0536 Y2.2602 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X45.0720 Y2.3144 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X45.0832 Y2.3705 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X45.0871 Y2.4296 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    (move x= 45.087066 GT max of 42.0)
    G1 X42.0000 Y8.1264 Z-0.3500
    (move x= 45.774254 GT max of 42.0)
    Y8.1264 Z-0.3500
    (move x= 45.774254 GT max of 42.0)
    Y2.4586 Z-0.3500
    G17 G3 X45.7781 Y2.3994 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X45.7893 Y2.3433 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X45.8077 Y2.2892 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X45.8330 Y2.2378 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X45.8648 Y2.1903 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X45.9025 Y2.1473 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X45.9455 Y2.1095 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X45.9931 Y2.0778 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X46.0444 Y2.0525 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X46.0986 Y2.0341 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X46.1547 Y2.0229 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    X46.2138 Y2.0190 Z-0.3500 R0.5625
    (move x= 55.147208 GT max of 42.0)
    G1 X42.0000 Y2.0190 Z-0.3500
    G17 G3 X55.3369 Y2.0315 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X55.5213 Y2.0681 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X55.6993 Y2.1286 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X55.8679 Y2.2117 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X56.0243 Y2.3162 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X56.1656 Y2.4402 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X56.2896 Y2.5815 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X56.3940 Y2.7378 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X56.4772 Y2.9065 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X56.5376 Y3.0845 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X56.5743 Y3.2689 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X56.5868 Y3.4586 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    (move x= 56.586754 GT max of 42.0)
    G1 X42.0000 Y8.1264 Z-0.3500
    (move x= 58.031036 GT max of 42.0)
    Y8.1264 Z-0.3500
    (move x= 58.031036 GT max of 42.0)
    Y9.1226 Z-0.3500
    G17 G3 X58.2758 Y9.1381 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X58.4551 Y9.1727 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X58.6285 Y9.2298 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X58.7933 Y9.3084 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X58.9469 Y9.4072 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X59.0866 Y9.5248 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X59.2103 Y9.6590 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
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    X59.4020 Y9.9690 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
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    X59.5096 Y10.3173 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    X59.5296 Y10.5007 Z-0.3500 R1.5625
    (move x= 60.134906 GT max of 42.0)
    (move y= 23.843898 GT max of 22.0)
    G1 X42.0000 Y22.0000 Z-0.3500
    (move x= 61.903509 GT max of 42.0)
    (move y= 22.075295 GT max of 22.0)
    Y22.0000 Z-0.3500
    G17 G2 X61.9177 Y22.0593 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
    X61.9308 Y22.0400 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
    X61.9415 Y22.0192 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
    X61.9495 Y21.9973 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
    X61.9547 Y21.9745 Z-0.3500 R0.1875
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    (move x= 42.613604 GT max of 42.0)
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    (move x= 42.936810 GT max of 42.0)
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    (move x= 43.295213 GT max of 42.0)
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    (move x= 44.092529 GT max of 42.0)
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    (move x= 45.435777 GT max of 42.0)
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    (move x= 42.819697 GT max of 42.0)
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    (move x= 42.691503 GT max of 42.0)
    X42.0000 Y10.8395 Z-0.3500
    (move x= 43.087745 GT max of 42.0)
    Y10.8096 Z-0.3500
    (move x= 43.520599 GT max of 42.0)
    Y10.7651 Z-0.3500
    (move x= 43.702886 GT max of 42.0)
    Y10.7463 Z-0.3500
    (move x= 43.992272 GT max of 42.0)
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    (move x= 44.321657 GT max of 42.0)
    Y10.7213 Z-0.3500
    (move x= 44.622993 GT max of 42.0)
    Y10.6830 Z-0.3500
    (move x= 44.937557 GT max of 42.0)
    Y10.6418 Z-0.3500
    (move x= 45.243118 GT max of 42.0)
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    (move x= 45.541569 GT max of 42.0)
    Y10.5087 Z-0.3500
    (move x= 45.696531 GT max of 42.0)
    Y10.4582 Z-0.3500
    G17 G2 X46.1170 Y10.3190 Z-0.3500 R6.7686
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    M05
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    M30
    %


    And I see a possible cause -- the material size is wrong (too thin and not big enough) -- how do I change this?
     
  18. Evil-Tunes

    Evil-Tunes Moderator Staff Member

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    In SketchUCam :good:



    Cheers
    E-T Attached files [​IMG]
     
  19. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Member

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    Okay, that helps -- the toolbar *kinda'* works in SU v8 for Mac, but I'll try it in SU v7 in WinXP.

    It is much better in WinXP and v7. The Generate 3D GCode label is not shown, but the check box is there. But I am not going to make this any more complicated...
     
  20. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Member

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    Okay, the good news is that I am not getting an error message.

    The bad news is, the GCode file is just 1k and only has the header information -- no shapes show up in CNC USB.

    I'm working from SU v7 in WinXP and the component of the imported DWG shapes is open.
     
  21. TigerPilot

    TigerPilot Well-Known Member

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    Neil, can it be that you generated a code without the 'safe area' or that the 'safe area' was not on the parts with the phlatlies? That will generate an empty file.

    Also, make sure you have the 'overhead gantry' box checked in the parameter window (the one E-T posted the picture of).
     
  22. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    If you post the .skp you would get better help. It's really hard to help people from explanations. Neil, have you watched all the different tutorials that show you how to operate the Phlatscript (Sketchucam)? A lot of the questions that you ask should be covered in the tutorials. Also the little question mark icon will give you an explanation of what each function does in Sketchucam.
     
  23. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Member

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    Thanks folks, I'll try again this evening -- and I missed the SketchUCam tutorials.

    Should the safe area be the size of the foam, and then I'll place the pieces within the margins? I noticed that the origin is slightly affected by this.

    If the imported DWG entities are in a SU component and the Safe Area is outside this, that sounds like it would be a possible cause, right?
     
  24. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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  25. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    Here is what the help file (the little question mark on the Sketchucam tool bar) says about the safe area.

    Safe Area Tool - Use this to graphically define the safe cutting area for your parts. This tool uses the safe width and height defined in the parameters dialog and allows dynamic placement of the "safe" cutting area rectangle.

    G-code output will be generated only from designated Phlatboyz edges within this safe rectangle and will be relative to the safe origin (bottom left corner).

    Note: Even if the user doesn't use this tool to graphically define a safe area, the safe cutting area still exists and assumed to be at sketchup's origin.
     

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