1. Hey guyz. Welcome to the All New Phlatforum!



    Sign Up and take a look around. There are so many awesome new features.

    The Phlatforum is a place we can all hang out and

    have fun sharing our RC adventures!

  2. Dismiss Notice
Welcome to The Phlatforum PhlatPrinter III

Direct replacement stepper motors

Discussion in 'MOTORS - Stepper Motors' started by 7up, Dec 27, 2008.

Page 1 of 3
  1. 7up

    7up Moderator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Has anyone upgraded to a stepper motor that is a direct "drop-in" replacement for the stock motors that does not require any mods to the cabinet? Somewhere in the 150-185 oz/in range.

    Please post links whether or not the cabinet needs modded or not.
     
    7up, Dec 27, 2008
    #1
  2. rcav8r

    rcav8r Moderator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,193
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I ordered a 111oz/in that appears to be a direct drop in; at least according to the measurements in the PDF for the Stepper. I just got notification that they shipped it yesterday. I'll let you know how it fits once I get it.
     
    rcav8r, Dec 27, 2008
    #2
  3. 7up

    7up Moderator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Hey rcav8r thanks. Are they new? How much do they cost?

    Be sure and let us know...
     
    7up, Dec 27, 2008
    #3
  4. rcav8r

    rcav8r Moderator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,193
    Trophy Points:
    38
    From what I understand they are new... $17 a piece, but shipping was $17 also :(
     
    rcav8r, Dec 27, 2008
    #4
  5. 7up

    7up Moderator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Was shipping combined on more than one motor or $17 per motor plus $17 shipping on each motor, $34 shipped per motor?
     
    7up, Dec 27, 2008
    #5
  6. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    6,311
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    NJ
    Hello 7Up,
    I just received the Nema 23 from circuit specialist for Christmas so I have not had the chance to put them in yet, but the should be a perfect fit.
    Any stepper that has a Nema 23 Mounting frame and is less than 2 1/4" long should be a perfect fit without having to cut holes into the sides of the PP.
    When I get them in I will let you know.
    Mark
     
    kram242, Dec 27, 2008
    #6
  7. 7up

    7up Moderator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Cool, I'll be waitin'
     
    7up, Dec 27, 2008
    #7
  8. rcav8r

    rcav8r Moderator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,193
    Trophy Points:
    38
    If those are the one in the post about Xmas gifts, then that is the one I ordered. Had problems with the online ordering, It appeared to take, but I never got a confirmation email. I waited a few days then I called the and guy I spoke to really didn't have any insight to what would be best, so I just took a shot on that one as it was my original choice.

    7UP. Online shipping was $12 when I placed the order. When I finally got the email invoice it was $17 shipping. Not sure what it would be to ship 2 or 3. So far I haven't been too thrilled with Circuit Specialists... We'll see when the stepper gets here.
     
    rcav8r, Dec 27, 2008
    #8
  9. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    6,311
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    NJ
    Hmm... that does not sound good about the customer service. I was going to try and work a deal for future PP oeners. But if we are getting bad feedback from their customer support that is not an option.
    I will give tham a call if these work out and see how it goes.
    Thanks for the update
    Mark
     
    kram242, Dec 28, 2008
    #9
  10. rcav8r

    rcav8r Moderator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,193
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Yea it's worth a shot once you get the steppers in and compare with the "stock" ones. Hopefully you'll get someone better on the other end of the phone.
    When I called I asked about the status of the order. I gave the guy my name and address. He said, humm there is a problem with the order. I asked what the problem was, and after a pregnant pause he asked my name and address again.... then said he had no order from me.

    It was at this point I figured I'd ask about the stepper I choose and the next one up as I now had someone on the phone, and was starting from scratch anyway. I understand that the next one up has more torque, but it also is a bit longer and would require a cutout in the cabinet. I was curious if I really needed double the torque. I started to explain how I was going to use it, but he interrupted, and just said more torque is better.
     
    rcav8r, Dec 28, 2008
    #10
  11. blindflight

    blindflight Moderator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    361
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    CA
    The stepper motors(hobbycnc.com 23-130-DS8) I got need a little "squaring" of the round areas.
    I have all my new motor's in and am having a problem with the "X". It seems to larch forward when its doing a cut from a program thus missing a step. Is it the "Accel or the Vetiocity" were turning down?
    Also I need to get a new hose or a "lovejoy flexible coupler". My "Y"stepper motor is slipping in the hose...Maybe to much torque....
     
    blindflight, Dec 28, 2008
    #11
  12. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    6,311
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    NJ
    lol not always true when you are looking for speed :) There is a direct relation between torque and speed. Usually with more speed ( A stepper that has a high RPM) you will lose torque. A stepper with a lot of torque will usually have less speed. So it is not only a matter of finding that balance in a stepper, but finding that balance in an affordable stepper seems to be the hard part :D

    Mark
     
    kram242, Dec 28, 2008
    #12
  13. kyyu

    kyyu Active Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,183
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Maryland
    They list the torque, but how do you know the stepper RPM? It's all very confusing. :?

    -Kwok
     
    kyyu, Dec 28, 2008
    #13
  14. rcav8r

    rcav8r Moderator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,193
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Yep, that's why I was asking... I thought maybe the guy selling them could offer some insight... Guess not. That's another reason I went with the 111oz one. Looked like it would fit in the case w/ no mods, AND torque should be sufficient, and it will be a bit quicker than the 200+ ounce/inch one.
     
    rcav8r, Dec 28, 2008
    #14
  15. kyyu

    kyyu Active Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,183
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Maryland
    So why do you think the 111oz one is quicker? I looked at the pdf data sheets. The big thing I noticed different is it has really high ohms, low amps? 30 ohms not too high? I don't know why I think this, but I seem to prefer the spec of the bigger one (2.3A, 2.5 ohm & 3.6V)???? Can anyone comment.

    -Kwok
     
    kyyu, Dec 28, 2008
    #15
  16. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    6,311
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    NJ
    Stepper motors are constant-power devices (power = angular velocity x torque).As motor speed increases, torque decreases. The torque curve may be extended by using current limiting drivers and increasing the driving voltage.

    I found this info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper_motor
    Hope this helps find the answer
    Mark
     
    kram242, Dec 28, 2008
    #16
  17. 7up

    7up Moderator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Kentucky
    I am waiting to see the results from your tests on the new servos Mark...
     
    7up, Dec 29, 2008
    #17
  18. WW8S

    WW8S Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Ohio
    In the broad sense, the statement more torque = less speed is not a universal truth. If you confine the discussion to one application, like the Phlatprinter, perhaps it can be true. We use some pretty large stepper motors on equipment we build at work. Our general guideline is to never exceed ~30 RPS, regardless of the torque size. Certainly, the faster a stepper motor runs the less torque it can produce, but a larger/higher torque stepper motor does not necessarily run slower than a smaller/lower torque motor. A lot of the torque vs speed can be based on the driver card. As Mark mentioned, more voltage can extend the torque curve as long as the driver card can control the current. It is also very important to have the rotor inertia matched properly with the load inertia in order to achieve the higher RPS speeds. In other words, you need a bit of a flywheel on the stepper motor of the right weight to get it to run at higher RPS. We might have a condition on the Phlatprinter where the small ¼”-20 lead screw is actually too little inertia to get a larger motor to run at a high RPS. If you go to Applied Motion Products website, http://www.applied-motion.com/products/index.php (the brand we use most), you’ll find some pretty huge steppers that can run up to 50 RPS, (again assuming the inertial mismatch is not too great).
    Dave

    Note: RPS = revolutions per second, (I don’t know why stepper motors use RPS instead of RPM, but it seems to be universal in the industry).
     
    WW8S, Dec 29, 2008
    #18
  19. frankrcfc

    frankrcfc New Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    381
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Battle Creek, Mi
    If it's the stepper I think it is I have already been running it for weeks. Circuit Specialists. The guys name is Charlie. And yes he seems a little preoccupied when answering questions. I have the 111 oz torque version 19 bucks plus shipping I got 3 actually. Still looking for that ever elusive perfect Y stepper though. I will say I have a really stable setting that I have been using for quite a while now but still way to slow on the Y. As in 8 max. Anymore and it just can't handle it. I've only lately learned to keep my hands off of trying to milk just a teen see ween see bit more speed :lol:
     
    frankrcfc, Dec 29, 2008
    #19
  20. rcav8r

    rcav8r Moderator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,193
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Frank, what vref are you running on that motor? I was hoping to get more than about 12 that I was getting from the old one before it died. I guess 12 is better than 8 ;)
     
    rcav8r, Dec 29, 2008
    #20
  21. blindflight

    blindflight Moderator Staff Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    361
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    CA
    "Accel or the Vetiocity" that causes the stepper motor to skip?
    Thanks
     
    blindflight, Dec 29, 2008
    #21
  22. frankrcfc

    frankrcfc New Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    381
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Battle Creek, Mi
    I'm actually running about the 1 oclock position on the Y vref Everything is running cool. Your right 12 is way better than 8 Blindflight it is a blend of the 2. You just have to keep working them both till you can trust it. Tue I'll have the bigger motor installed.
     
    frankrcfc, Dec 29, 2008
    #22
  23. dangre

    dangre New Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Both.
    Acceleration is the amount of time to get to your velocity. Start with a slow acceleration and then increase your velocity until it skips. Reduce velocity to 80% or so to get consistant results. Then increase acceleration until it begins to skip again and reduce to 80% also.
     
    dangre, Dec 30, 2008
    #23
  24. dangre

    dangre New Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Make sure you are measuring your Vref with a meter so you do not exceed the manufacturers max voltage. All pots are different so don't just go by 1 o'clock or such...
     
    dangre, Dec 30, 2008
    #24
  25. frankrcfc

    frankrcfc New Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    381
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Battle Creek, Mi
    oops your absolutly right Dangre. That was just my personal setting for my particular setup. I stand corrected. ;)
     
    frankrcfc, Dec 31, 2008
    #25
Page 1 of 3

Share This Page