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Quad and Tri-Copter Build Tips....

Discussion in '* Scratch Built Section *' started by rjarois, Dec 5, 2009.

  1. johnbernard36

    johnbernard36 Member

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    Thanks to all for the feedback!

    Crash and I are working out the builds and consolidating the vast amount of information on all the variants of tri , quad, etc. copters. There seems to be an incredible amount of activity out there, and given the ease in building these (especially if you have a Phlatprinter!!) we thought we'd share our experiences.

    The board came about from me being lazy and not wanting to do all the point-to-point wiring involved with three or more motors, gyros, etc.. There are also many different types of accelerometers and configurations that can be used, so I wanted a board that would allow me to "play" with multiple setups without having to spend hours rewiring things.

    I'm finishing the next revision to the board that pretty much makes it a "universal" interconnect board for the Wii-based components, as well as quite a few other optional components. We'll post our results, and if there is enough interest, we'll provide the bare board and perhaps a built board.

    To get up to speed, I'd recommend visiting the MultiWiiCopter thread at http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1261382. This was the direction I went in building my Tri/Quad copter, even though there are many different platforms out there. This is a very active forum, but will give you a great wealth of information. My board supports the Arduino Pro Mini variant, which is my recommendation to get started in multi-rotor due to it's proven performance. Watch some of the video's to see the crazy stuff they're doing wiith these things!

    As you will most likely want to program and customize your setup, you can install and play with the software by loading the free Arduino development application from http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Software. This will give you a chance to see if fooling with the software needed to configure and play with these things is something you want to get involved with or not. It's very easy, once you've done it, and there is a configuratior program you can run as well.

    I need to stop here, or this post will go on forever! LOL

    Watch for the build logs, podcasts, and additional info as we take the trip down this path!

    John
     
  2. rjarois

    rjarois Moderator Staff Member

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    i ripped the old tri apart today.....made a new t-frame for it. this is to help with the flying orientation. in the y config i kept losing orientation cause of the shape. this was just the first test flight.....man i cant wait for spring to come...randy.
    [​IMG]

    waitin on spring...
    [​IMG]
     
  3. johnbernard36

    johnbernard36 Member

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    Randy,

    You're right, the "Y" can be confusing. That's why I mounted the canopy up front to help me with the orientation.

    Using the Wii stuff, you'll be able to hover it in the house (lots warmer!).
     
  4. rjarois

    rjarois Moderator Staff Member

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    johnbernard36, speaking of wii, ya get my e-mail?? randy.
     
  5. rjarois

    rjarois Moderator Staff Member

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    looking around in my r/c box i found a heli canopy.....velcro and 3 screws, and i got a nose in the t-copter. between the nose and the t-conf, this thing should be like flying my planes. also the quad is very light as i used 1/8 lite ply, with a strong web type construction. randy.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Crash

    Crash Moderator Staff Member

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    Got my little Tri finished up and programmed today and, even though it's mondo-windy, I couldn't resist putting it in the air. It flies quite nicely for this super-cheap combination!

    I've cut the whole thing from 1/8" Revell birch ply (got it at Michael's Craft Store for $8 for two sheets of 12"x24") and used 1/2" x 5/8" C-Channel that I had on hand.

    Motors are Tower Pro 2410-09, ESC's are Hobby King 25Amp SS series, props are GWS 10x4.7 SlowFly, Receiver is the Hobby King Orange Box DSM2 with Satellite Antenna, BEC is Castle 10 amp, and the battery is an old Zippy 3s2200 20C. The stabilization system? Well, you can hear all about that on the next CrashCast. :tease:

    Here's a quick picture from my phone that I just took. Please try to ignore the dead leaves stuck all over it - my front yard is dead and this thing really kicks all that junk up. LOL Attached files [​IMG]
     
  7. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    Nice Mike! Look forward to hearing about it.
     
  8. blindflight

    blindflight Moderator Staff Member

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    That looks great Mike!!!
     
  9. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Nice job Mike! :doubleup:
    Got to get some video of this badboy in the air!
    Mark and Trish
     
  10. Crash

    Crash Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the compliments, gang. It is so cool! Now that I have a few battery packs through it, I am getting the hang of it. When you kick in the Accelerometers (I engage mine by flicking the retracts switch on my Tx), it's kind of like flying a Coax heli. It's simply amazing!

    I am going to try to get some video of it this weekend. I expect that I can get my son to come over and film whilst I hover it around so I can demonstrate just how stable the thing is.
     
  11. Crash

    Crash Moderator Staff Member

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    I finally got YouTube to accept my video, so take a look and let me what you think!

    Also, I have a full article on this over at ATC - http://tinyurl.com/45rowrd
     
  12. iflyos

    iflyos Member

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    To cool Mike.....I cannot wait to see it at SEFF. It looks very stable, and quite responsive at the same time. You and John did a great job on the board!

    Tim
    AG4RZ
     
  13. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    Nice Mike. :good:
    From listening to the crashcast and watching this, it seems like you got quite a winner for sure.
    Looking forward to yours and John's write ups on it.
     
  14. KX-5

    KX-5 Member

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    Great job on the Wii copter!! Please let us know about how much it costs to get something like this in the air.
     
  15. Crash

    Crash Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks for all the positive comments, guys!

    LaVerne, I totally expect to be able to put a realistic price tag on it very soon. I just need to take the time to add everything up. I honestly think that I am somewhere in the $225 - 250 range for everything.

    John and I are going to be providing some really good info for people looking to go down this path and do it really cheap, but still very effective.

    Stay tuned! :lol:
     
  16. Norlas

    Norlas New Member

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    Really a great job. Very nice to see the video. Hope there is more when you have some room to put it through its paces. :doubleup:
     
  17. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    I can't wait to build one of these! Great job Mike and John :banger:
    Mark and Trish
     
  18. rjarois

    rjarois Moderator Staff Member

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    wow mike good job man!!!! randy.
     
  19. dhc8guru

    dhc8guru Member

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    Nice work! I piled in my Trex 450 today. It was overcast with what little daylight was still around, I easily lost orientation doing some flips. Maybe I should build a tri-copter. :D

    I am curious if you can use the old revolution mixing in the radio to compensate for doing things like piro's so altitude isn't lost? Maybe it isn't possible?
     
  20. 66tbird

    66tbird Moderator Staff Member

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    Nice, looks solid as can be. Now I know why the Arduino ref in your show notes.

    I just installed a BeastX FBL sys on my 450. That tiny box created a very stable yet stick pinchingly nimble handful of heli. Which I too plowed in via lost orientation. But only $10 in repairs plus replacement of the divot in the yard and all is good. :?
     
  21. Crash

    Crash Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't think you'll be able to add in Revo Mixing, since the radio is not in heli mode - it's actually in fixed-wing mode.

    For what it's worth, there was no decay in lift when I tried that piro in the video. I just came off the throttle a bit when I bumped the yaw. You may notice that I am using some pretty large knobs on my radio. I bought these to help me with precision on my helicopter stuff, but I am still trying to get used to them. I like the size they offer for my big ol' fingers, but now I am finding that I need longer sticks to get the "right feel". Oh, the curse of being a BIG man. LOL I bet that new Spektrum DX10t would work for me. :D

    T-Bird, I am saving for a BeastX for flybarless. I'll be anxious to see what you think about it!

    Here's a cool thing - John and I really think that the electronic Flight Stabilization System we are using will be able to serve in helicopters, too. At this point we've got a qualified tester lined up, but still need to play with the code to make certain we can pull it off. Then it's a matter of determining whether or not the gyros and accelerometers sample at a high enough rate to be effective in this role.
     
  22. johnbernard36

    johnbernard36 Member

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    Sorry I haven't contributed much to this thread lately. We've been busy reading, building and playing with these multi-rotor thingies.

    I thought I'd share a couple of the projects so far that are acting as a test bed as we learn about developments being made in this aspect of the hobby, and in stabilized flight in general.

    Here is my little quad-copter. It's a bit of a departure from the normal four spindly arms that you normally see, as I wanted to make it as rugged, but as small as possible, but still be able to lift some weight. I used 1/8" lite ply for everything, as well as 370 Alpha motors. Plenty of lift and duration (10 min +) out of a 2600 25C 3cell LiPo.. I left space between the top and bottom plates for the "arms" which also give a place to mount the ESC's on each side and the BEC on the left side. All the wiring is hidden in the "box" in the center.

    The electronics/wiring "box" is an integral part of the frame, and gives plenty of strength with minimal weight. A cover goes on flush which hides everything, as well as protectes the bits and pieces from faster than anticipated contact with the ground (otherwise known as a Crash! :D ).

    I'm getting close to the final interconnect board which will support pretty much any gyro/accelerometer out there. Shown on this board is a Wii Mothin Plus (gyros), A Bosch BMA180 3 axis accelerometer, A pressure sensor, and of course the Arduino Pro Mini that is the "brains" of the whole thing.



    I'm putting together a compilation of a good deal of the information already available in the various forums to help folks interested in stabilized flight systems quickly find the basic information around the electronics they need to get started. The problem is that there is so much information available, it can get a bit confusing. The first step will be a minimal system, hand wired, that follows the QSC concept: Quick, Simple, and Cheap! This will also give you a great basis to determine what your needs are and a better idea of what you want in a stabilization system.

    Stabilization systems, especially the Wii-based /Arduino-based systems, look to have outrageous potential for all types of aircraft from a basic glider you want to use as a camera or FPV ship, to the crazy 6-8 rotor multi-copters, and everything in between! Mix this with foam and a PhlatPrinter, and the only limit seems to be your imagination!

    John Attached files [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  23. Crash

    Crash Moderator Staff Member

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    Check out what I've been up to this evening...

    Gonna use ExceedRC Alpha 370 motors and 18 amp ESC's swinging 8x4 3 bladed props.

    This thing is TINY! Gonna be fun, for sure!!! Attached files [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  24. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    Cool Mike!

    Hey John, I noticed in this pic
    [​IMG]
    you were using the knock off 401's before you switched to the wii components. Did you ever get the tri to fly right with them? I have them on the tri I built and they just wont perform right. They work ok for just hovering and slow flight but if I punch the throttle to get higher quickly the back leg drops and I find myself having to give full forward stick to keep the thing level to land. This happens if the gyros are in hh or rate mode. Just wondering if you experienced anything like that with yours. Oh yeah I have the wii/ardruino stuff on its way anyway. :D

    Here is a pic of my tri.
    Attached files [​IMG]
     
  25. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    This is awesome guys! :doubleup:
    Can't wait to get these in the air!
    Mark and Trish
     

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